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Comments From COH

Please use this space to share with the general public/professionals/social services, what you would like them  to know about your COH experiences, by posting your comments.

Below you will find comments from COH attached to the New York Times article: Children of Hoarders-On Leaving the Cluttered Nest.

First, here is a good idea/comment from a member of the COH Yahoo Group:

I would like to encourage those on the board to “recommend” responses that the COH here have posted as the more recommendations they have the higher they will be on the “Reader’s Recommendations” tab, which sorts out responses by number of recommendations. It would be nice to get COH posts high up on the list so that they will get read by more people.


Here is the direct link to NYT article comment page:
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?sort=newest

These links will take you directly to each of these comments where the “recommend” button can be clicked (a little bit of each post is pasted to give an idea of what it’s about.) If there are any comments inadvertently omitted, kindly bring that to our attention if you would-thank you:

#169.
Daughter of…
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=169#comment169

To Trudy, who asked if the kids are pitching in, It seems apparent that you have very little understanding about what hoarding actually entails. It is a mental illness, a compulsion. We are not talking about parents who simply lack basic cleaning skills, we are talking about people who will go through the garbage whenever cleaning is done in order to rescue old newspapers, worn clothing, and often times things that are unhygienic like used personal hygiene products or old food containers…

172.
Janni
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=172#comment172
My mother was a horder and I appreciate reading others comments above. It took my brother and I six months of cleaning out her place after she died suddenly, and still needed to use a storage unit for 5 more years until we finished and could part with most of it. My mother was very intelligent and I am sorry she died without knowing that others had her disease…

173.
Lu
Oakland, CA

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=173#comment173
As the child of a hoarder, a clear, clean counter is one of the most cherished …

126.
j.
oakland, ca

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=126#comment126
i haven’t read through all the comments, but – haven’t seen many yet from people who might be hoarders, or worry about becoming hoarders. anyone like that out there? esp. since it runs in families? i know have the hoarder genes – i’m ADD and quite sure i get it from my father. he’s a packrat, and the only reason our house wasn’t a hoarder’s house is probably because of my mom…

133.
Mary
NH
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=133#comment133
Dr. Frost, please respond to post #115. I am interested in your opinion. What is more important — the feelings of the hoarder or the health, SAFETY,…

134.
fdl
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=134#comment134
My husband’s parents are hoarders. They do not think of themselves that way, and neither did my husband until our last visit to their home…

144.
SusanH
Atlanta, Georgia
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=144#comment144
This was an excellent article. My siblings and I are currently dealing with our aging parents and my father’s hoard. We love our father,…

146.
eastcoastemigre
Los Angeles, CA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=146#comment146
Our house wasn’t dirty or unsafe, but my mother’s refusal to throw away anything that might have a future use turned what could have been a beautiful home (a showcase, even) into a virtual warehouse…

156.
One Wee Spark
Spokane, WA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=156#comment156
I am also a COH. The fact is that some people are having success. Almost two years ago, my mother truly hit bottom–emotionally and physically. She was removed from her home after losing consciousness and being in delirium. The…

157.
BRMG
Blue Ridge Mountains, NC
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=157#comment157
To Kris, #135–Why my father wouldn’t do something about our situation (my mom is the hoarder)? I can remember one time they went to counseling at the church and it upset my mom too much, so they never went back.
As we got older, he would ask us what was he supposed to do? We were kids… uh, maybe be an adult and…

101.
Sidney
Burbank, CA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=101#comment101
I found this article from the COH website. Today is the one year anniversary of my hoarding mother-in-law’s death. Her only son is just now recycling the thank you notes and pallbearer cards the funeral home supplied him/he paid for…

107.
Child of a Hoarder
Syracuse, NY

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=107#comment107
My mother who suffers from both bi-polar illness and hoarding made my life a living hell. To this day, I wake up with nightmares that center on the shame we felt having to live in such squalor…

109.
Lynx636
Portland, OR
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=109#comment109
My mother is a hoarder who refuses to admit that anything is wrong. She has boxes of cereal and crackers from the 1970’s still piled in kitchen cabinets that one can barely open, host to generations of grain moths. She also hoards…

110.
tracy
new york
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=110#comment110
Despite the fact that my mother’s hoarding started to spiral out of control in the 1980’s, when I was still living with her, and the fact that I was one of those children who feared having friends visit the home, it was not until after her death in 2006 that it finally dawned on me that the appropriate label for her behavior was “hoarding.”…

111.
Daughter of…
NYC
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=111#comment111
As the daughter of an extreme hoarder I an attest that there is a constant fear of turning out like my hoarding parent, and a steady struggle to resolve my frustration with my love for them…

112.
Child
Upper Midwest
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=112#comment112
Child of a Hoarder, here. I am reading with interest and am truly amazed that out of five pages of comments there is only one mention of hoarding as child abuse…

114.
HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?)
Crayfish
Northwest
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=114#comment114
Dr. Frost, as the child of a hoarder, there’s a question, or category of question, that I’ve wanted to ask for some time, in order to clarify my understanding of the advice of the experts:…

116.
HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?)
ExpatMama
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=116#comment116
I am forty-three years old and have spent the last thirty years believing that my brother and I were the only kids who grew up in filth and stench…

118.
Kate
NY
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=118#comment118
After my father died, my mother became somewhat of a hoarder. She had always saved things because they were “good.”…

119.
Child of a Hoarder
Syracuse, NY
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=119#comment119
#112 — THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY IN MY MIND — IT IS CHILD ABUSE! Like you, I am in my 40’s and although I feel pretty well adjusted — and consciously choose to live my life differently than my parents, I look at my own kids and can’t imagine subjecting them to the craziness I was…

122.
Mary Jane
New York, NY
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=122#comment122
Dear Dr. Frost, I am an adult child of a hoarder and I have noticed that my own hoarding tendencies (and general difficulty with organization and executive functioning) worsened quite dramatically after the death…

123.
Joe P
Pittsburgh, PA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=123#comment123
My mother, nearly aged 70, is a compulsive hoarder who remains in denial about her problem – despite increasing physical frailty and ill-health worsened by destructive lifestyle choices like poor diet. Her mother was a hoarder as well….

125.
Elizabeth Nelson
Michigan
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=125#comment125
The families most desperate for help are dealing with hoarders who totally lack insight, will never be willing candidates for the recommended treatment options. I have never read any speculation about what percentage of hoarders ARE willing candidates for treatment-…

76.
HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?)
Jennifer
Princeton, NJ
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=76#comment76
I am the daughter of a mother and father who were hoarders. I also grew up in an affluent town that made the pressure of everything looking right on the outside very intense…

Expert opinion:
Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
3:53 pm
I can certainly understand your reactions to having grown up in such a home. One thing you might try with your mother is to see if she would be interested in learning more about the role of possessions in her life. I have found that people who hoard, in addition to usually being very intelligent, are often very curious about their hoarding behavior. This seems to be true at the same time that they deny a problem to others. A first step is to be able to see yourself in what others describe. I have had a number of people mention that they can see themselves in the descriptions in our book “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things.” If you can get her to take a look at it, she might begin to open her eyes. If she is more computer savvy, you can send her to the International OCD Foundation website and read what is there about hoarding. It is never too late to give up. We have people in their late 80s who have done marvelously well in our self-help groups.

77.
Suz
Idaho
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=77#comment77
I am surprised no mention of traumatic experience plays into this discussion of hoarding. My father and my mother-in-law grew up very…

Reply/from Expert:
Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
5:50 pm
Actually, we do know that people with hoarding problems experience more traumatic events than most people, although interestingly, they do not develop PTSD any more frequently. We don’t think the traumas cause hoarding, only hasten its development.

Also of interest, we have found no evidence the early material deprivation causes hoarding.

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
6:52 pm
Jumping off from what Dr. Frost said about this comment, I have found, anecdotally, that often someone with long-term clutter problems, an inability to organize, and/or compulsive shopping will enter the realm of true hoarding after a trauma. In my mother’s case, it was the death of a boyfriend that set her hoarding in motion. If you watch “Hoarders,” the behavior almost always seems to be set off by some kind of loss – in most cases a loved one. Sometimes I think the possessions are meant to fill the void left behind by the person who was lost.

80.
TMB
Jersey City
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=80#comment80
This is such a fantastically complex compulsion, I’ve been trying to unwind it—and to some degree to cope with it—for years. I definitely agree that hoarding has a strong heritable component and have often wondered if many hoarders would, if carefully screened, be found to fall somewhere with in the Autistic Spectrum of Disorders (e.g. Ausperger’s). My own mother, along with much of her family, are hoarders to one…

Reply from Expert:
Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
5:58 pm
You are certainly correct that this is a fantastically complex disorder. There is a lot we have yet to learn. For a somewhat more in-depth treatment of it, you can take a look at “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things.”

We do tend to find more hoarding in people on the autistic spectrum, but most people who hoard don’t fit that categorization.

81.
Hoarder’s Son
Northeast USA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=81#comment81
While much of the focus is properly on finding ways to treat hoarders themselves, there seems to have been very little attention paid to the treatment needs of the children of hoarders. Indeed, children of hoarders are often mentioned by professionals as being obstacles and problems, rather than as being people in their own right who are hurting and need support at least as much as the hoarders…

reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
6:04 pm
You raise a great point. Most of the research has focused on the people who hoard and not on family members. We’ve done one study of family members and have another under way, but virtually nothing has been done on developing treatments or support groups for them. I believe this will happen. There is such a great deal of research on hoarding now that it is only a matter of time.

82.
Sharon
Midwest
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=82#comment82
Thank you for this article. I’m the granddaughter of a hoarder and rather close to being one myself. I often worry about the effects that…

Question though: our young son, it seems to me, is also starting to show hoarding signs… He sets up these huge collections of toys, paper, junk etc… I try to explain to him that some stuff is trash, that it has to go in the bin and STAY in the bin. I don’t mind him playing with non-toy stuff, it stimulates his creativity and all, but at some point it needs to go. He also sets up these collections, just for the sake of having collections.

Reply from expert:
Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
6:05 pm
Yes, you can help your son. You seem to be doing just what you should in terms of providing guidance and being a role model for discarding. When children develop hoarding problems we see a great deal more emotional upheaval when they are forced to discard. We also see a personification of possessions that is extreme. If he displays either of these, you may want to consider consulting a psychologist who specializes in treating OCD. They will be most likely to know how to treat him.

89.
Sydney
Canada
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=89#comment89
Between #7 and #8, this Frost guy said, “You are right that we have no cure, in part because we don’t yet know what causes this problem.”

Okay, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to realize it’s got some OCD component and some depression component.

My dad and brother were hoarders and I’ve known others. What’s the huge mystery?…

Reply from Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
6:06 pm
Yes, it used to be thought that hoarding was a subtype of OCD. With research in the last few years, it appears that hoarding differs in a number of ways. While I don’t have space to go into all of the distinctions, perhaps the most apparent is that in OCD, the obsessions cause considerable distress and are never associated with any kind of pleasant emotion. In hoarding, however, the acquisition and often the finding of treasures among the piles can be a source of considerable pleasure. In some ways, this makes hoarding look more like an impulse control disorder than OCD. Indeed, one of the components of hoarding, compulsive buying, is considered as such.

91.
Mary
Baltimore, MD
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=91#comment91
I grew up in a 3 bedroom home that literally had a path from front door to back. My mother could not bring herself to purge 40 years of…

Reply Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
6:06 pm
You are right that there are more than one or two problems here. In most hoarding cases, we don’t see squalor. In that ones we do, it is not clear why the home has deteriorated in this way. We’ve just started investigating squalor in hoarding, so it will be some time before we know anything about it.

94.KH
Palo Alto, CA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=94#comment94
My parents (mostly my father) used most of the rooms to store their junk: tiles and paints that were meant to fix and decorate the house, broken furniture that was also going to be fixed eventually, broken computers that “could be fixed”, etc. All of the materials needed to fix that house are somewhere in those piles, unseen for years! My father …

96.
cantante
Indianapolis
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=96#comment96
“Me too” – child of a hoarder. I had no friends growing up. Part of that was because I was a shy nerdy girl, the sort to get picked on ALL the time in the 1970s. But a lot of it was because no one could ever come over. When you don’t invite…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
60 – Some people with hoarding problems come to a point of realization late in life that the things they’ve collected have little real meaning. But the problem has gotten so out of hand that cleanup is almost impossible. Difficulties with ADHD as well declining cognitive and physical functioning with age leave them unable to help themselves. At that point, many are able to let others help out.

Many people assume that hoarding problems stem from basic laziness. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It’s not laziness, but an inability to put any kind of effective plan together. That includes the hard task of getting rid of things, and even more difficult task of organizing an effort to clear a hoarded home.

While we’ve found depression in over half of people with hoarding disorder, we don’t think the depression is the cause of the disorder. However, it certainly makes dealing with it more difficult.

61.
Dee
NY
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=61#comment61
Thank you for this article. I am the child of a hoarder and, at age 52, no longer visit my mother’s home as I find it disgusting and sad. I expect…

62.
Been ThereDone That
Sick of It
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=62#comment62
Since when is being inconsiderate, lazy and messy a mental illness?
I guess when there are pills and therapists to “treat” said illness.
My mother was/is a hoarder… she wasn’t/isn’t crazy – she just values…

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
I do agree with you that living in a severely hoarded home is abuse. And I understand your frustration with adult children of hoarders not being able to let go – but it is very difficult. We love our parents and want them to be healthy and happy. That’s a normal desire. In my case, due to a combination of physical and mental effects from dealing with the hoard, I did finally let go of the idea of “fixing” my mom. And we’re both better off for it. But everyone is different, and at different phases in their lives, and I don’t think it’s appropriate to lump all children of hoarders together.

I’m not sure, when you say “since when is being inconsiderate, lazy and messy a mental illness?” if you’re referring to all hoarders or just your mother. Because hoarding is most certainly a mental illness and not laziness – in fact many times what holds a hoarder back from organizing and cleaning is perfectionism.

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
6:51 pm
First, let me say that you sound like a great friend and I’m sure your support is a great help. I am not a therapist, but here’s what I would do: talk to her, absolutely, and try to suss out how aware she is of the problem. (Many hoarders lack insight about the severity or even existence of their hoarding.) Is she willing to see a therapist? Perhaps someone who specializes in compulsive hoarding? What kind of support system does she have, other than you?

Secondly, I would seriously consider calling child protective services. Four children should not be living in filth or going weeks at a time without having their hair combed. That is what I would do.

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
3:52 pm
Interestingly, research on hoarding has recently concluded that it is not a form of OCD but a separate disorder. There are some cases of clutter that may be OCD, but only if the clutter consists of things that are not thrown out because of another OCD symptom such as a fear of contamination.

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
5:46 pm
I know it seems like you are stuck, but there are some low-cost things you can try. If you have a friend who is sympathetic, ask if they will simply sit with you as you sort and throw things away. They don’t need to do anything but sit and talk with you. Second, you can contact Dr. Jordana Muroff at the Boston University School of Social Work. She may have an ongoing study of hoarding that may provide free help. Another option is to get involved with the case management program that I helped to set up. If you email me rfrost@smith.edu I can give you more details. It does cost, but not as much as therapy.

74.
AT
Montvale, NJ
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=74#comment74
As one of three children of a hoarder – my mom, I can agree that the tendency to hoard is there. I am the oldest of three children and I still get…

26.
Banty
Upstate New York
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=26#comment26
I grew up in a house with a mother with a different set of problems. What I love about this article is that its focus on being the child who grew up in a hoarder’s household instead of the usual focus on the hoarders themselves, which usually treat family only in terms of how much patience can they muster when they come to visit after they’ve grown up and moved away…

33.
moebius22
united states
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=33#comment33
I’m the child of a hoarder. This article brought up a great deal of anger and resentment in me…

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
2:49 pm
Maybe the one positive is that you have siblings for emotional support in this doubtlessly difficult situation. I hope, anyway. From what I’ve seen, support is an essential part of letting go of some of that anger and resentment. I know you weren’t asking for advice, but the best thing I did, in terms of dealing with my mother’s hoarding, was to join the online Children of Hoarders support group (childrenofhoarders.com). Tracy mentioned the same thing in the story. I can’t overstate how much the group has helped me. Good luck.

36.
Amy
Ohio
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=36#comment36
Sandy (#14) – It’s not that simple.

If the child is the executor of their parent’s estate, then they have a legal obligation to dispose of their parent’s possessions — either pass them on to the heirs or sell them. Unless the hoarder’s house and all it’s contents are inherited by one person, then the executor has a legal obligation to deal with the contents of the house…

37.
jane doe
pennsylvania
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=37#comment37
Excellent article and comments. Hopefully this helps to shine light on an issue that is still so widely misunderstood, with, sadly, so little compassion for the individuals impacted by it. .The lack of dignity and respect that one experiences when forced by circumstances to live with another’s filth and debris is emotionally exhausting and debilitating…

39.
Dave
NYC
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=39#comment39
Like #3, I wish my parents had “hoarded” just a little bit. When they retired and moved out of the house I’d grown up in it was a surprise move. When they said they were not bringing anything except their bed and some books and kitchen stuff to the new retirement house, I…

40.
jc
Boston, MA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=40#comment40
I come from a family of sentimental collectors. It is only now, 7yrs after my mom’s passing, that I can finally let go of a lot of the stuff she…

44.
Jill Kemerer
Michigan
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=44#comment44
I read Jessie’s book last week–what a powerful memoir! I hated to put it down, and indeed, read it in two days. Her love for her mother really came through–even as her, completely understandable, issues did. I appreciated the way she explained the different causes, symptoms, and possible treatments for hoarding. It never read like a textbook, yet I was much more informed about the disorder after I read her book.

This article came at just the right time for me! Excellent!

45.
sandra
dc
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=45#comment45
Child of a hoarder, niece of several, sister of one. Hoarding is probably genetic. As part of the family that had to clear out their spaces after death, and in one case after admittance into a nursing home, I…

46.
sleepygirl
California
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=46#comment46
Why must I be the one to clean out my mother’s house?
1) She’s leaving it to me.
2) In amongst all the cr*p, are the family heirlooms… hand embroidered textiles from Russia nearly 200 years old. *somewhere*…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:08 pm
This is the question we get most often from family members, and it’s very tough to answer. One of the biggest problems is that family members are often not in the best position to help. The history of conflict around clutter and the condition of the home colors any discussion that might be productive. I can tell you what we have found to help. First, we have developed a form of cognitive behavior therapy that helps most of the people who get it. The difficulty is that not too many therapists know how to do it, and many people with this problem are not willing to seek help. Second, we have been experimenting with self-help groups and our initial findings are quite promising. Despite coming into our groups being ambivalent about addressing their clutter, most people leave the groups with much improved homes and enthusiastic about change. Stay tuned for more on this because we are just now submitting the findings. A good place to keep in touch with this work is the International OCD Foundation web site (ocfoundation.org). The organization is a gathering point for not only people who suffer from hoarding problems, but family members as well. Third, an outgrowth of our self-help approach is an effort to develop communities of people who can help each other. Most of the people in our self-help groups are eager to help others with this problem.

A good place to start in your community is to find out whether there is a hoarding task force. There are over 75 of these across the country made up of people from various agencies (e.g., health departments, elder service agencies, housing officials, fire officials, etc.). They can be instrumental in setting up self help groups. There are instructions on how to do this on the IOCDF website.

One final suggestion — we have found that one simple event helps to keep people working on clearing clutter. That is to visit their home as often as you can, and encourage other people to do so. Clutter problems always get significantly worse when someone is living alone with no visitors. When people come to visit, even people with the most severe hoarding problem will spend time trying to clean and organize. It isn’t necessary to talk about the clutter or the hoarding problem, just visit.

The more work I do on our therapy and the self-help project, the more enthusiastic I become about being able to develop ways of helping people with this problem. Good luck!

2.
workerbee
Chicago
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=2#comment2
My childhood home was never ‘hoarder level’ packed with stuff, but I had doorbell dread and resented my mother for it from the day I was born. As far as inviting over guests, “Anyone who cares about how messy our home is–isn’t a true friend.”, she says.

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
12:17 pm
I hear you and can imagine how hard that must have been. I don’t have children, but I know that children of hoarders who do have kids struggle with teaching them balance — after all, they didn’t have an example. At least you’re aware of how you were affected by your parent’s problem and won’t continue the cycle. All the best.

4.
been there
CA
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=4#comment4
I participated in the Johns Hopkins study and can confirm that hoarding does indeed run in my family – 4 of my 5 siblings have that tendency to some degree and 2 to a great degree. Our life was…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
3:58 pm
The feeling of being alone with this problem is quite common. Many people with hoarding problems as well as their family members have told me how they felt like the only ones in the world with this inexplicable problem. A number have told me how relieved they felt when they learned it had a name, and that people were studying it. I think this is one reason why our recent efforts in developing self-help groups has been so successful. It amazes me how the people in our groups connect and begin to support and care for each other. Even people who are quite ambivalent at the beginning…

6.
joe smith
huntington beach, ca.
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=6#comment6
My step-father was a terrible, pathological hoarder. My sister and I were constantly embarrased by our unsightly yard. As an adult I…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:10 pm
You are right that we have no cure, in part because we don’t yet know what causes this problem. Until we know that, we can’t be sure we have found a cure. Most of the people I have worked with who were successful in conquering this problem must continue to be vigilant about acquiring and discarding. Yet it can be done…

8.
shelley h
wisconsin
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=8#comment8

Can really relate. Was in my mother’s make-up, maybe her mother/family before her? All children — me + two brothers, have it to some degree. Me, the worst, or so it seems.
As the family ‘memory keeper,’ though death, catastophes, crises, I am paralyzed as to where to begin…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:10 pm
Certainly our culture is partly to blame for the remarkable explosion of this problem. However, in our research we find only a small correlation between the trait of materialism and hoarding. There is much more to this than an acquisitive culture. Interestingly, when we examine the reasons behind acquiring and saving things among people who hoard, we find they are the same reasons we all acquire and save things. Some things have sentimental value, some instrumental value, and some we just like for their intrinsic qualities. The difference is not in why they save, but in the fact that they assign these values to a wider variety and large number of things. In a sense, people who hoard have a more complex way of viewing possessions (not “objects” since this way of looking at things seems to apply only to things one owns). They pay attention to the things the rest of us ignore (e.g., the shape, color, texture, etc.). It may be that this is a special form of creativity or a kind of intelligence that most of us don’t have. The problem is that although it may be a gift of sorts, it is also a curse since it gets in the way of living…

10.
HoarderSon
A clean house
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=10#comment10

Never had any interest in watching Hoarders – clutter holds no fascination for someone who has escaped it. But very glad to know…

13.
ECWB
Jacksonville, FL
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=13#comment13
I am the child of a hoarder and am currently performing the extremely difficult task of clearing out my parents’ home. While it is exasperating and exhausting, I think it is important to remember that hoarding is the result of an emotional illness or a chemical imbalance in the brain,…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:11 pm
I certainly agree with your hope that people with hoarding problems come to be seen with compassion and sympathy rather than morbid curiosity. In order to understand this problem, we must be able to walk a bit in their shoes. Once we understand how they see the world, we will be in a better place to help them.

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
12:18 pm
I’m surprised that you read the article as one-sided; I didn’t get that sense from the story at all. I absolutely 100 percent agree that hoarders deserve compassion – they didn’t choose to be hoarders. No one would. That said, every hoarder, and every child of a hoarder, is different; there is no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to whether that child needs to avoid the home or not.

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
12:18 pm
This is a good question – believe it or not, there actually are some states that have filial laws that hold a child responsible for providing financial support to care for indigent parents, and I’m assuming that includes dealing with the clean-up costs of the deceased parent’s estate. From what I know, these laws are rarely enforced, but it’s enough to scare some of us. About your larger question of WHY we feel the need to clean up after our hoarding parent has passed away, I can only speak for myself. I’ve let go of the idea of getting my mother’s house clean, but the bottom line is that someday I will have to deal with it — I can’t imagine simply walking away. That just wouldn’t feel right to me.

15.
Susan
Florida
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=15#comment15
Thank you so much for this article. I am a child of a hoarder, and your paragraph about “doorbell dread” opened my eyes to another aspect of why I am paralyzed with fear at the thought of entertaining…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:11 pm
Yes, “doorbell dread” is quite common among people who hoard and their family members. The best way to get over it is to ask your friends to drop by as often as possible unannounced. The more you hear the doorbell, the quicker your emotional/physiological response will habituate.

Unfortunately, hoarding has soured many family relationships and feelings of guilt are common. As I’m sure you are aware, these are things you had to do to help your mother. We all do the best we can, sometimes under difficult circumstances. Being so emotionally dependent on Stuff is indeed a curse.

16.
Lutoslawski
Iowa
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=16#comment16
Those who haven’t experienced a pathologically cluttered household may think this article is risible or incredibly self-indulgent, but reading it practically moved me to tears: this was my childhood. There’s even…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:12 pm
Yes, we have found ADHD to be linked with hoarding. In our recent study, nearly 30 percent of our hoarding group had full-blown ADHD inattentive type while only 3 percent of our OCD comparison group did. Many more have ADHD like symptoms, but not the full blown disorder.

19.
ligeia m.
Brooklyn, NY
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=19#comment19
I am the only child of a single parent and grew up in a very, very cluttered home. Besides Mom, there is a family history of being overly sentimental and of keeping worthless antiques (aka old junk). Even though I have been on my own for many years now, I still have a problematic relationship with “stuff”. I do not know how much is…

22.
HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?)
AaronS
Florida
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=169#comment169
I am humbled and rebuked by this article. My wife grew up in the home of grandparents that were hoarders, and with a father who, while not a hoarder per se, is certainly quite cluttered…

Reply-Jessie Sholl
Author, “Dirty Secret: A Daughter Comes Clean About Her Mother’s Compulsive Hoarding”
May 12th, 2011
2:47 pm
Aaron, you sound like a great husband and I’m sure your wife appreciates your understanding. I’ve met lots of children of hoarders with wonderful, supportive spouses and it makes such a difference! That’s great that this story helped you understand your wife better. I applaud your open mind.

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:12 pm
Interesting observation. We have found a correlation between hoarding and death anxiety, although the sample we used was very small so we haven’t published anything on this yet.

25.
Carolyn Egeli
Valley Lee, Md.
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/garden/children-of-hoarders-on-leaving-the-cluttered-nest.html?permid=25#comment25
The children are sometimes mired in their own neurosis from having had to live with
it. It should be recognized as an addiction/illness so that it can be treated. Painful experience and fear is behind it. Understanding it is challenging for…

Reply-Dr. Randy Frost
Co-author, “Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things”
May 12th, 2011
12:12 pm
Yes, this is a very difficult problem not only for the sufferer, but for family members as well. Hoarding is under consideration as a new entry in the diagnostic code for mental disorders. It will be located in a group of disorders called Obsessive Compulsive Spectrum Disorders along with OCD and a few others. While it looks like an addiction, we have found no clear link with alcohol or drug abuse or dependence. It is more closely linked to depression. Over half of people with hoarding problems are clinically depressed. Nearly a third suffer from Generalized Anxiety Disorder, a disorder characterized by worry, and nearly 25 percent suffer from Social Anxiety Disorder.

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